I always learn something when Mike Castro visits. He dropped by our Saturday workout and did some swings just to pass the time til we finished. Three sets of 100 reps with the 24,28 and the 32 kg if I'm not mistaken and I dont think he's been doing much kb work of late either.
That didnt surprise me; I've seen him do stuff like that regurally. But it did force me to look at his swing mechanics.
He had much more of a knee bend on the descent than I am used to seeing of late and it made me think back to when he trained us and how he swings the bells. There is no "right" and only way to do anything. For beginners there is the classic technique for everything as well but once someone enters the intermediate( let alone the advanced) stage of training, individual nuances come into play. One must maximize individual biomechanics to maximize output.
I, of course, being the dogmatic perfectionist that I am, always try to fit myself into the quintessential classic form regardless of whether it fits or works best, or even if it works at all.This almost always gets me in trouble and it did when I trained WSB. I was always trying to squat with too wide of a stance for my build( which is very small hipped and no ass).
AS Louie said to me " you are built to deadlift".Unfortunately I am too weak to excel in it but you get the point. Deadlift, not squat.
As per Bretts post about single leg deadlifts and starting the lift with a 20 degree knee bend I always felt that way about barbell squats. I knew if I could start the lift with a 20 degree knee bend I could get my hips into the lift from the start. Starting with a locked knee it was very hit or miss whether I could get my hips back.Usually miss.
ESPECIALLY if I am trying to JUST sit back and NOT use my legs.
WSB almost made a fetish of NOT using quads or pecs and this, imo, was a mistake. Use it all. Why leave anything out of a lift? Just use it in the right place.
Quads are breaking muscles as well as knee extensors and when I break at the knee first it seems to provide a platform for my hips to rotate from. My own lumbo-pelvic rythym( thank you gymnastics very much) is pretty screwed up and this is how I get my hips and legs into squat/pull pattern.
If you look at Mikes picture in GiryaStrength gallery you can see this on the cleans and swing.He has a long femur and strong quads as well as hips. He uses them both. More like an olympic clean off the floor than a power squat( basic rkc).
It also keeps his combined center of mass over hisbase of support much better as it shortens the lever arm. Looked interesting so I gave it a try and it even more interesting!
Dont know if my knees will take it but it felt very natural, and strong stroke.I put up some vids of it .
Here's the hip centric form
Steve Cotter also has a more leg centered swing I just recalled. Makes sense considering how freaking strong his legs are. Train you weakpoints but compete your strengths( me).
Tactical Pullups( shoulder is most open it has been in years. almost scared to write it down)
5,5,6,6,6
4,4,5,5,5
4,4,4,4,4
71 reps
I cant beleive how good these felt. my shoulder was the most "in" it has been in eons! The reverse grip hang really finished off the ROM and flexiblity issue I think. at least for now.
Misc. Swings
200 reps of one arm, two hand, hi pulls, transfer and snatches working with this new techniqque
weights varied from 16 to24 kg.
this will be an interesting experiment anyway. what else do I have to do? not training to compete is the hardest thing I have ever done in training. Having a competition to spur you on makes training so much easier. Holding back all the time and yet still showing up and pushing as hard as safely possible is way tougher.
Rack walks
20 kg 200 feet per arm
1600 feet. PR
30 sec rest/arm
these also felt fantastic! gait is much improved and stronger.
bosu ball
light stands two and one foot
bw 160.8
bf 8.9%
water 60.6%
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11 comments:
"Train you weakpoints but compete your strengths."
I love it! Dont' try to be something you're not. Another great quote.
thanks dude.I fought that for years with Louie and finally realized I should have followed my instincts all along.
The second swing form seems anatomically safer. Your wife has a short range of motion taking the bell in a tight arc. She seems to dissipate the energy well. On your first form, it seems as if the the padded floor and your skeleton is decellerating the load. The Castro/Cotter form seems to radiate the load of many muscle groups and limit trauma to the frame. That would make it more systemic and cardiovascularly demanding as well. Just a thought. It is like the RKC snatch vs the GS Snatch. Exercise vs Sportive efficiency. Then look at Federenko and he is smooth but doesn't rely on "tricks". Just damn smooth.
Just a thought.
Tom,
thanks for the thoughts. The floor is hard rubber over plywood so no padding at all.
I agree with you but my knee doesnt! It locked up big time almost immediately after that tiny workload and my back followed soon after.
again, what I want to do and what my body will let me do are two different animals.
So odd that I did 256 hi pull snatches the other day and felt nothing the day after. I do think I can build up to this as its the structure of the knee that doenst hold.Same reason I dont do direct leg work anymore.
oh well, as Louie says I'm built to DL, lol.
tracy does have a great short stroke
Hey I tried to comment but it didn't show up. So if it pops up later you will know why.
Great post, and I appreciate the vids too, man.
I have to use a little more quads when I swing the bulldog, I try to get as close to classical as possible, but I need the extra little pop my quads add.
A side note, I just gave up on trying to find the "perfect" program. I am following the program minimum to the letter when my shoulders and hip flexors are a little looser I am going to do the ROP to the letter.
Maybe some low rep front squats and floor presses on my variety days. I am also dropping all dumbell and barbell work at least for the next year or two.
Removed TONS of mental conflict just to choose something and pursue it to a level of excellence.
thanks royce, glad you are enjoying my video "career",lol.I rarely try to fit myself into a perfect program design( learned the folly of that awhile ago) but still try to make my body do the "right thing" when it comes to form,although I dont know why.
I always have to tweak things, especially now with all my injuries.Luckily I am picking up the lessons faster as I get older.
I think the deviations from the orthodox form (even in expert kb'ers )are compensatory and maybe even a little "sloppiness" has crept in... sure more weight can be handled but does that make it good form? (how you lift is more important than how much you lift... except in comp)...the swing style I teach is a much more "shins in concrete up to the knees" good morning style...this is especially good for female athletes who (neuromuscularly hard wired as quad dominant apparently and will "squat swing" automatically) need as much posterior chain work as possible to stabilize the knee/ACL. But most men I've taught have a hard time getting the hips back and shins vertical too...which is another reason why I teach it that way...they learn a new and useful and powerful recruitment pattern. so...front squats for quads...swings for hips, hams.
I'm too pedantic/rigid maybe.
randy, interesting.why do you say females are neurmuscularly hard wired to be quad dominant? with all that hip size and glute mass one would think the opposite?
I find my female clients have amuch easier time using the classical style and themen a hmuch harder time finding their hips. they try to use the quads much more than the newbie females.
Rif,
first off i want to apologize for the tone of my first comment...after I re-read it, it didn't quite read like I meant it to ...anyway, regarding women and quad dominance...I did some follow up post-rehab training with some female lacrosse and soccer players a couple of years ago and the PT gave me a couple of articles, not NSCA but peer reviewed, which I have since lost and don't recall the authors'names...but there was strong evidence to suggest that at least part of the ACL tear epidemic among female athletes was due to quad dominant "hard wiring" hence the focus on unilateral ham strengthening (and also gastrocs since they cross the knee joint and are true flexors of the knee in addition to being plantar flexors) So...in the end it was something I read somewhere...incidentally my male clients aren't any faster at picking up the RKC swing, but they don't seem to get as sore when they do catch on. One anecdote that illustrated the point of the article for me: I inherited from another RKC a female client who had been swinging for a year. I got her to try sitting back more than down on her swings and the next day she couldn't go up or down the stairs and suffered some "sitting hardships" as well.
randy,
no need to apologize! didnt notice any "tone" at all man.as usual, though, I disagree with the research based on all the female athletes I've known. Seems to me that NONE of them are taught to jump correctly at all and all of them turn into "knee jumpers" due to nonexistant squat motor patterns
and subsequent weak glutes and hamstrings.
haivng worked with a lot of HS female athletes in gymnastics, swimming, bbal and track none have recieved what I would consider proper coaching or training on how to squat or jump well.
this is what I consider the real reason for all these acl injuries; not to mention ATROCIOUS ankle and hamstring flexibility and ROM.
I still dont understand the evolutionary reason why girls would be hard wired for quad dominance either.
good stuff though and thanks for the comments.
Agree with everything you say about the lack of athletic instruction contributing to ACL problems...but since title IX there's got to be more than lack of instruction going on...more girls are playing sports than ever and the quality of instruction is in some parts of the country at least as good as what boys are getting.
Can't comment on how quad dominance contributed to getting the genes into the next generation...but maybe that particular branch in our evolutionary history was a leg man (I do have a good explanation for lipstick and makeup which almost got me expelled from grad school but that's another story)
cheers
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