This is a post that was on Dragon Door this morning.Now what are they going to say?
Pavel's answer to fraud claims
From: John Du Cane
Message:
There is a lot of gossip flying around based on a former Senior RKC's claims that Pavel is somehow a fraud. Pavel and I held off answering what amounted to baseless slander and libel, preferring that folk eventually realize for themselves that the libel was based simply on a blatant attempt at character assassination. Unfortunately, there are some types out there who are doing their best to stir up what we can consider at best an irritating non-issue. So for those who need to know here is Pavel's summary of his past history and qualifications that have been called into question.
Pavel's comments: I graduated from high school at 16 and was drafted into the special forces after two years of college in 1988. I served a little less than two years (Gorby's decree discharged the students) and went back to finish school. Bachelor's, not master's. The master is MS in GS. I made it in 1989, the same year I was appointed an NCO instructor. In the armed forces at large GS was classified as a "military applied sport", was contested only with 24kg KBs and the military only had the authority to award levels 1-3. Special units had in-house competitions with 32s, that's where I made my MS numbers in 1989. I gave Smolov full credit for his squat program. As I always do. Regarding the Senior RKCs leaving. If they choose to announce their reasons, it is their business. I have my own reasons and I treat them as RKC internal affairs
Rif comments:
it is also interesting to remember that GS has only been an official sport since 1985, so this " gs is the only thing the kb is designed for" is way off base. The kb was in use long, long before gs ( in it's original incarnation gs had a repetition press contest and allowed the bell to lower to the shoulder in the snatch as well as the jerks) and was making people stronger and more enduring before 'efficiency' techniques came into vogue.
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10 comments:
I still like the fact that girya was a standardized measure of weight, and men being men started saying "Well hell I could lift that 10 times."
And the next dude saying "I could do it 15 times."
If you actually stop and think about it you could probably follow the evolution of the movements like the jerk.
If someone pressed it strictly and someone else didn't I bet they got into the same kind of arguments we are listening too now.
It's all really sort of funny but sad too.
So this whole commotion is because he "put up the MS numbers" in his unit instead of doing it officially?
I can certainly see why the JDC/DD/RKC organization loses good people, but this complaint is weak.
Valery Federenko has the credentials to be regarded as a GS expert, but I've learned nothing from him as a teacher in the two years that his website has been empty.
Do his GS credentials mean he will teach me something in the future? I have no idea. GS doesn't interest me.
Obviously Pavel's claims were jazzed up. But could you not instantly tell from the hokey writing? The world's foremost practitioner of GS and master spy could not and would not come up with this fusion that is the evolving RKC system.
Pavel's collection of stuff (Naked Warrior, Grease The Groove, kettlebells) is a cool shortcut to strength and fitness. I enjoy it.
T
T,
doing it in his unit was not doing it "unofficially".GS was a military sport until 1985 when it became an actual sport in the USSR.
I would bet that the techniques and training methods of the guys in the first gs nationals were extremely similar to what the military guys were doing.
remember this also, being a good demonstrator is NOT the same as being an excellent instructor. Not even close.
royce,
exactly.this also reminds me of the raw vs gear powerlifting debate. childish.
oh yes and T, good point about VF.Where is his voice in all of this?
Jim,
"self styled guru with an uncertain backround?" Man you are on the wrong blog for that shit dude.
since VF is being touted as the MASTER KB lifter in the universe I would think he would want to put his 2 cents in.
as far as being a real kb expert, lets compare how many people Pavel has helped with his kb expertise and how many VF has. GS is a SPORT, not a fitness system.
One TRAINS to get in shape for sport, NOT the other way around.
It's a shame that Pavel, Federenko, Cotter, Mahler, Maxwell, Morrison etc. can't be peers in a much broader organization, each exploring their own direction. More like T-Nation authors than the limited pyramid which, I imagine, wasn't Pavel's idea.
That could produce some serious research and some serious knowledge. And cheaper kettlebells.
People would have to be willing to take a smaller piece of a bigger pie. Difficult to do.
It will be interesting to see if someone with, say, an RKC tattoo but a huge fascination with GS-type volume and other theories helps bring that about.
T
t,
depends on your persepctive.All of the aforementioned are doing their own things, not as peers per se, but as participants in that bigger org that is the world of kettlelbells. Just as the IPF and Louie, coming from totally different worlds, are still under the basic umbrella of powerlifting . what they develop is what develops as each develops their own sytem, or not, and will contribute to the overall whole just by existing.
It's good. competition brings out the best in us.
as far as my obsession with volume that has nothing to do with gs. I've been an inveterate overtrainer since I was 14 years old gymnast training 4-5 hours a day 5-6 days a week.
The only reason I got into powerlifting was because Louie had his guys doing ten sets of squats! Every other system only had two top sets and I didnt think that was enough!
And we will see what I can bring to the table. I will do my best.
I just do this for fun and fitness. Kettlebells are probably the coolest thing I have ever seen, and I have used them to get stronger than I have ever been. What Pavel did or did not do is irrelevant to me. Having met the man, I give him the benefit of the doubt. What is relevant to me is that Pavel had the foresight, business acumen, and good fortune to introduce kettlebells to America.
On the one hand, I am sad that a group of leaders in the field in this country have entered into a giant pissing match over theory that has deteriorated into unverifiable accusations and innuendo. On the other hand, I am glad to see that the industry is offering more choices in valid technique, quality kettlebell selection, and educational offerings.
At the end of the day, we all spend time here to improve our health and fitness - nothing is more basic than that.
As an amateur, hats off Rif and all of you that do this for a living and are willing to share your knowledge and insights - much of it for free through your blogs and posts on various forums.
charley
thanks for the kind words. I do my best to teach what I know to be the best way to get stronger and better. I did it before kettlebells and now that I know about them, and how to use them to best advantage I am using and teaching that.
There are politics and drama only as long as their are humans involved :))
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